Kamala Harris gained early success tapping into Obama's corrupts big money donors and PAC network. These are the people Harris is really accountable to, not betrayed working class Democratic voters.
John and me attended a zoom by Workers Strike Back where the call for third party was loud.
The speakers were Jill Stein and Kshama Sawant.
There is a fair supply of third parties out there, ready and waiting, including the ones of Kshama and Jill.
We sat there wondering how the greens and Socialist Alternative chapters must feel having their own leadership just joining the chant for a third party, after years of organizing, creating platform, waiting for voters to see them.
The rhetoric should change now from "needing a third party" to actually supporting a third party.
We suspected, after the zoom, that much like the high you get from drugs, the normalcy of a day to day life in a straight up third party is not as emotionally satisfying as the high from calling for change.
Tea Party Republicans understood that and in a very short period of time completely ran off the party corporate establishment and remade the party from boardroom conservatism to the Christofascism we will soon be entering.
Meanwhile on the left, lefties mewl about on their knees looking for a leader to hear them. Rub their tummies. Scratch their chin. Lead them. Perhaps after the prairie fire burns for a decade some on the left will finally stand up, raise a ruckus, resist and scare the establishment enough to follow them.
A third party will not magically appear. I don't know when, where or exactly how, but I do know my attempts of working with the left have gone nowhere.
The most disheartening thing is after some really good rabble rousing from the Socialist Alternative, articles like this up above etc - I frequently contact them and ask how can we help, we want to work with you - I get stonewalled. I've not received a single reply from the three chapters and their headquarters I've been emailing.
That is exactly the kind of thing I have seen over and over. The state Democratic Party was that way, back when I was delusionally thinking I could work with them. I had the same thing with repeated attempts to work with the Peoples Party. Same thing with several supposed progressive candidates, even the Libertarians (hey, what the hell, I can agree with 50% of their platform). Hell, even my attempts to work again with Ralph Nader have gone nowhere ... no response to phone calls or emails.
Today's left thinks organizing involves a snappy logo, hip web site, dunning people for donations and talking among themselves in a boardroom in NYC or LA.
Phil Anderson asked for endorsement and I was actually thrilled thinking that this is a great way to demonstrate that whatever policy differences we have, we can duke it out, but we have to get a guy IN who is not on leash.
The guy is pro ranked choice, is petitioning for equal time broadcasting and debate access, is committed to a push to repeal Citizens United, would work for relaxing ballot access rules - we could make an election pact. Get the guy in, hope he manages to unbolt the door!
But I couldn't get through. "Well if we endorse someone, let's endorse Baldwin". Again was making rounds knocking at the door of movements and parties, In hopes of getting the Greens and commies in, get constitution party in - let's push this guy into senate.
Everyone suddenly digs into their trenches, NO, others can join US, we will not join them! The requirement for absolute purity and policy alignment killed the one good thing we could've gotten from this senate election.
There is much I agree with on the Libertarian platform, and much I disagree with. Probably about 50/50.
Democrats say they stand for things I agree with, pretty close to 100%.
But at the end of the day I would be more likely to get about 50% from Libertarians and 0% (Kamala Harris is reportedly not at all interested in anything like Medicare For All and certainly will continue the genocide) from the Democrats.
Those groups that insist on purity have no concept of what politics entails: debate; deal-making; alliance formation on the things you agree with, courage to fight for what you want and having one tiny ounce of integrity.
Yeah it sure seems that way. Every once in a while a magnetic personality appears from the ranks of the Dems and there's fire for a while, but when the fire doesn't come from within, it lasts exactly as the magnetic personality can constantly escalate and re-ignite the flame.
Now, religion on the other hand... but whoever told us to separate church and state, gave an immense upper hand for those who put it back together again.
The New Democrats have been around since the 1980s. They are way, WAY past their expiration date. So far past it, in fact, that they make the British PM Liz Truss, whose term could not outlast a head of lettuce, look fresh and new.
Good article with which I thoroughly agree. I would simply note that that Kmala Harris is between a rock and a hard place. She runs nothing now and has four or five months as a loyal substitute waiting to get into the game while she tries to campaign as a member of a warmonger regime.. Negotiating difficult situations is what successful politicians do. Will she arise to that challenge? Maybe, if she can manage not to do anything really stupid between now and November. If not, there's always Jill Stein, but if I keep voting for her, my wife may begin to suspect that I'm interested in another woman.
Yet you just suggested voting for her, thereby increasing the chance that the truly terrifying party will win. And as you say, it's going to take organizing from outside the Democratic party to make any real change, not voting for a third party that currently and sadly has no chance of winning.
Our politics are dead and irrelevant. We need social and labor movements ... general strikes, boycotts, mutual aid. We need gravel, rocks and boulders in the gears of the machine to bring it to a grinding halt, then the politics can align.
There is a Vast TYRANNY planned to be ushered in. Who we "vote" for in November-- AS IF-- means less than nothing.
Americans need to wake up and smell the UTTER ABANDONMENT of We the Peeps by the criminals running this country. Do we not hear them LAUGHING AT US???? The alarm clock is running down...
‘Fact: The *Vote Blue No Matter Who Cult* Is More Cultish Than The *MAGA (Trump) Cult!*’
‘Using facts & common sense (Cultists Have None) you have to realize The VoteBlueCultists are much more of a Cult than The MAGA (Trump) Cult!
Fact: If The Warmongering, Israeli Bootlicking, War Criminal Trump, was to quit the presidential race & leave politics *NO MORE CULT!*
Fact: The Vote Blue Cult let The Dem Party Billionaire Elites Dump The Alzheimer’s Riddled, Warmongering, Israeli Bootlicking War Criminal Joe Biden *AND INSTALLED* The Warmongering, Israeli Bootlicking, War Criminal Kamala Harris…
AND THE *NO MATTER WHO VOTE BLUE CULT* LIVES ON!’
Even when The Shapeshifter Kamala reversed herself on 4 Major Progressive (Like) Policies! THE CULT LIVES ON!
She’s *NOW* Pro Fracking, Pro Fund The Police, Anti-Medicare For All, Anti-Immigration!
All 4 Are Flip-Flops From Her Positions In 2020! AND THE CULT LIVES ON!
1. We're too far up against it to pull off anything new this year; but we absolutely CAN start something that can grow to maturity by midterms 2026.
2. We know what the Democrats will do, if they win in November: go on vacation for 3-6 months, hear no calls to act on things they promised to anyone who helped them win; and assume all their tactics were impeccable because "it worked last time". They will be unprepared, and underfunded, in Jan. 2025 to do their usual left-suppressive chicanery.
Maybe a couple of their consultants and shill-shops will do some things "on spec"; but it won't be nearly the effort they can muster in a POTUS election year.
3. The existing "third parties", tho' they have their good ideological points, are all unequipped and temperamentally unsuited to hoover up all the left energy and momentum out there and house and contain it all. Their leaderships and infrastructures can't handle it without risking disintegration.
Our new party must be a much looser, coalitional structure that those parties can align with us or not on specific issues without risking their own integrity or dividing themselves as they stand.
The Brazilian "Lula" left coalition seems a good model for that.
4. The Democratic Party will no doubt try to sabotage anything we'd put together; as would various hardcore Communist and Socialist factions.
They'd all want the same thing: to break up the new party and harvest off the recruits and parts each would want.
They do this by choosing certain conflicts, and stoking those to such levels of acrimony that only splitting will "solve" them.
Our new party should be then deeply interested in *how* we conflict and disagree, because the *whats* will show up on their own. It's a vital matter of internal and external self-defense against forces overt and covert that would seek to derail and dismember our party. Those will really exist.
5. "Personalities" should not lead our party or our efforts. Personalities are people; and people can be smeared and suborned and demonized by the apparatuses who oppose us and want us destroyed. They do it all the time, in 100s of different ways.
Let our identity as a party be the left ideas we want represented:
Healthcare For All,
Housing For All,
Dignity For All
(just as an example);
and make our attackers have to struggle to impugn those ideas.
Let the party be first, and the persons who carry the party's banner (towards or in office) be considered secondary.
It's a kind of politics that can still "fit" in the American system; but a far different kind than anyone else offers.
Your idea of a new party sounds so good, but I worry that the billionaire elites who control America won’t let it happen. Kamala is as much of a party hack as Genocide Joe is. Even good people like Obama are tainted by the rotten American system. BTW, the ideals and you describe as fundamental for your new party are exactly those of European socialism.
The rule of billionaire owners and elites has borne its bitter fruits in where we are now. If they intend to quash us, we should both a.) Expose them by name, + make them defend their many corrupt and grasping actions; and b.) Make plain that their most desired governance benefits absolutely no one but them, and harms absolutely everyone else.
Very well said, Mark. For all the myriad faults of capitalism, it is so disappointing to see that people refuse to give the concept up. I’m writing from Britain, which has had fourteen years of blatant extreme capitalist thieving of state and public riches. Here, sadly, too many people believe the establishment lies. As you have alluded to a possible response is right wing extremism. Here (in the UK) that expresses itself as a very ugly racism. True socialists are demonised and lied about . Jeremy Corbyn is the perfect example. A socialist future is the only fair way to run any country. Again, that frightens the existing power structures and their subservient masses, so tends not to happen. Venezuelan is another great example! I only hope that enough people will wake up and say “we’re not going to take this any more” so that things really will change
Well said. Starve and abuse the people, loot them of their resources and rights and you get either fascism or real justice, some kind of fair nation ... some form of socialism. The entire west is on the pivot point.
We actually already have many "third parties" in the US, and so I don't see the need to start entirely from scratch. That just takes time and energy better put to use elsewhere.
The Greens, for several valid reasons, are unsuited to absorb a large amount of new members and energy. They have been subject to "takeover"/disruption attempts from outside before, that were usually preceded by a membership influx. They are wary of such movements, and regard those as threats to their structural/ideological integrity.
Our new party should be open to coalitional work with the Greens, as and if they choose to work with us on issues they agree with. Otherwise, their agency and sovereignty should be theirs alone.
I vote for a new SYSTEM, and let's dump government.
We can do everything we need to do WITHOUT it, and no more standing army using our money to kill other people in far-away places-- and then steal their resources.
Through their negligence and timidity, Democrats constantly stir the pot of American fascism. In many ways they are more dangerous than the Republicans. At least the Republicans are open about their fascist intent and goals.
I share your fears. The worst VP choice in my lifetime was Joe Lieberman, whose loyalty to the US seemmed subservient to his loylty to Israel. He also did non-stop criticism of Bill Clinton, something that might be warranted in 2024 but was a recipe for disaster in 2000. If Harris picks Shapiro for VP, I think the election is over. He may be a good governor but I will not vote for anyone who supports our participatipon in genocide. There are other issues but in today's world, they are irrelevant.
And also keep in mind, Harris's husband is a diehard Zionist and his brother is a big exec at Uber. Nothing will change. Israeli ZioNazis own and run the show. The best that can be hoped for is the nation's slide down the toilet drain will be a tad slower.
John and me attended a zoom by Workers Strike Back where the call for third party was loud.
The speakers were Jill Stein and Kshama Sawant.
There is a fair supply of third parties out there, ready and waiting, including the ones of Kshama and Jill.
We sat there wondering how the greens and Socialist Alternative chapters must feel having their own leadership just joining the chant for a third party, after years of organizing, creating platform, waiting for voters to see them.
The rhetoric should change now from "needing a third party" to actually supporting a third party.
We suspected, after the zoom, that much like the high you get from drugs, the normalcy of a day to day life in a straight up third party is not as emotionally satisfying as the high from calling for change.
Here's the truth that few on the left understand:
Leaders don't lead.
The people lead the leaders.
Tea Party Republicans understood that and in a very short period of time completely ran off the party corporate establishment and remade the party from boardroom conservatism to the Christofascism we will soon be entering.
Meanwhile on the left, lefties mewl about on their knees looking for a leader to hear them. Rub their tummies. Scratch their chin. Lead them. Perhaps after the prairie fire burns for a decade some on the left will finally stand up, raise a ruckus, resist and scare the establishment enough to follow them.
A third party will not magically appear. I don't know when, where or exactly how, but I do know my attempts of working with the left have gone nowhere.
The most disheartening thing is after some really good rabble rousing from the Socialist Alternative, articles like this up above etc - I frequently contact them and ask how can we help, we want to work with you - I get stonewalled. I've not received a single reply from the three chapters and their headquarters I've been emailing.
That is exactly the kind of thing I have seen over and over. The state Democratic Party was that way, back when I was delusionally thinking I could work with them. I had the same thing with repeated attempts to work with the Peoples Party. Same thing with several supposed progressive candidates, even the Libertarians (hey, what the hell, I can agree with 50% of their platform). Hell, even my attempts to work again with Ralph Nader have gone nowhere ... no response to phone calls or emails.
Today's left thinks organizing involves a snappy logo, hip web site, dunning people for donations and talking among themselves in a boardroom in NYC or LA.
Phil Anderson asked for endorsement and I was actually thrilled thinking that this is a great way to demonstrate that whatever policy differences we have, we can duke it out, but we have to get a guy IN who is not on leash.
The guy is pro ranked choice, is petitioning for equal time broadcasting and debate access, is committed to a push to repeal Citizens United, would work for relaxing ballot access rules - we could make an election pact. Get the guy in, hope he manages to unbolt the door!
But I couldn't get through. "Well if we endorse someone, let's endorse Baldwin". Again was making rounds knocking at the door of movements and parties, In hopes of getting the Greens and commies in, get constitution party in - let's push this guy into senate.
Everyone suddenly digs into their trenches, NO, others can join US, we will not join them! The requirement for absolute purity and policy alignment killed the one good thing we could've gotten from this senate election.
Now we get NOTHING.
There is much I agree with on the Libertarian platform, and much I disagree with. Probably about 50/50.
Democrats say they stand for things I agree with, pretty close to 100%.
But at the end of the day I would be more likely to get about 50% from Libertarians and 0% (Kamala Harris is reportedly not at all interested in anything like Medicare For All and certainly will continue the genocide) from the Democrats.
Those groups that insist on purity have no concept of what politics entails: debate; deal-making; alliance formation on the things you agree with, courage to fight for what you want and having one tiny ounce of integrity.
There’s purity and there’s selling your soul. Providing bombs for genocide is the latter. No purity involved.
Well, I once thought about creating a new political party. The platform would have been People Opposed to Tyranny or quite simply, The POT Party.
Yeah it sure seems that way. Every once in a while a magnetic personality appears from the ranks of the Dems and there's fire for a while, but when the fire doesn't come from within, it lasts exactly as the magnetic personality can constantly escalate and re-ignite the flame.
Now, religion on the other hand... but whoever told us to separate church and state, gave an immense upper hand for those who put it back together again.
And Harris didn't even go through the primary thing. Plus, she's a psychopath.
The New Democrats have been around since the 1980s. They are way, WAY past their expiration date. So far past it, in fact, that they make the British PM Liz Truss, whose term could not outlast a head of lettuce, look fresh and new.
Good article with which I thoroughly agree. I would simply note that that Kmala Harris is between a rock and a hard place. She runs nothing now and has four or five months as a loyal substitute waiting to get into the game while she tries to campaign as a member of a warmonger regime.. Negotiating difficult situations is what successful politicians do. Will she arise to that challenge? Maybe, if she can manage not to do anything really stupid between now and November. If not, there's always Jill Stein, but if I keep voting for her, my wife may begin to suspect that I'm interested in another woman.
Yeah, but given the Greens, you can tell your wife she has nothing to worry about.
(I don't mean to be too snarky to the Greens but I can't pass up the opportunity to make a cheap joke.)
Yet you just suggested voting for her, thereby increasing the chance that the truly terrifying party will win. And as you say, it's going to take organizing from outside the Democratic party to make any real change, not voting for a third party that currently and sadly has no chance of winning.
Our politics are dead and irrelevant. We need social and labor movements ... general strikes, boycotts, mutual aid. We need gravel, rocks and boulders in the gears of the machine to bring it to a grinding halt, then the politics can align.
There is a Vast TYRANNY planned to be ushered in. Who we "vote" for in November-- AS IF-- means less than nothing.
Americans need to wake up and smell the UTTER ABANDONMENT of We the Peeps by the criminals running this country. Do we not hear them LAUGHING AT US???? The alarm clock is running down...
Yes, so we should at least vote to stop the GOP. It made a huge difference on the Supreme Court.
‘Fact: The *Vote Blue No Matter Who Cult* Is More Cultish Than The *MAGA (Trump) Cult!*’
‘Using facts & common sense (Cultists Have None) you have to realize The VoteBlueCultists are much more of a Cult than The MAGA (Trump) Cult!
Fact: If The Warmongering, Israeli Bootlicking, War Criminal Trump, was to quit the presidential race & leave politics *NO MORE CULT!*
Fact: The Vote Blue Cult let The Dem Party Billionaire Elites Dump The Alzheimer’s Riddled, Warmongering, Israeli Bootlicking War Criminal Joe Biden *AND INSTALLED* The Warmongering, Israeli Bootlicking, War Criminal Kamala Harris…
AND THE *NO MATTER WHO VOTE BLUE CULT* LIVES ON!’
Even when The Shapeshifter Kamala reversed herself on 4 Major Progressive (Like) Policies! THE CULT LIVES ON!
She’s *NOW* Pro Fracking, Pro Fund The Police, Anti-Medicare For All, Anti-Immigration!
All 4 Are Flip-Flops From Her Positions In 2020! AND THE CULT LIVES ON!
- Thor Swayze (Truth Telling Immortal)!
Glenn Greenwald just dropped a video today (8/9) that is a good overview of all that Kamala Harris is ... and isn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkDjh-Snv0
I won't be party to sending Kam to the WH,, but I'll shamelessly revel in 4 years of comedy gold.
Her special form of 'Komedy' ... and tragedy.
The fact she is already the Dem candidate without a single vote in a supposed 'democracy' is already funny ... and tragic.
Glad to hear other folks saying this.
My perspective:
1. We're too far up against it to pull off anything new this year; but we absolutely CAN start something that can grow to maturity by midterms 2026.
2. We know what the Democrats will do, if they win in November: go on vacation for 3-6 months, hear no calls to act on things they promised to anyone who helped them win; and assume all their tactics were impeccable because "it worked last time". They will be unprepared, and underfunded, in Jan. 2025 to do their usual left-suppressive chicanery.
Maybe a couple of their consultants and shill-shops will do some things "on spec"; but it won't be nearly the effort they can muster in a POTUS election year.
3. The existing "third parties", tho' they have their good ideological points, are all unequipped and temperamentally unsuited to hoover up all the left energy and momentum out there and house and contain it all. Their leaderships and infrastructures can't handle it without risking disintegration.
Our new party must be a much looser, coalitional structure that those parties can align with us or not on specific issues without risking their own integrity or dividing themselves as they stand.
The Brazilian "Lula" left coalition seems a good model for that.
4. The Democratic Party will no doubt try to sabotage anything we'd put together; as would various hardcore Communist and Socialist factions.
They'd all want the same thing: to break up the new party and harvest off the recruits and parts each would want.
They do this by choosing certain conflicts, and stoking those to such levels of acrimony that only splitting will "solve" them.
Our new party should be then deeply interested in *how* we conflict and disagree, because the *whats* will show up on their own. It's a vital matter of internal and external self-defense against forces overt and covert that would seek to derail and dismember our party. Those will really exist.
5. "Personalities" should not lead our party or our efforts. Personalities are people; and people can be smeared and suborned and demonized by the apparatuses who oppose us and want us destroyed. They do it all the time, in 100s of different ways.
Let our identity as a party be the left ideas we want represented:
Healthcare For All,
Housing For All,
Dignity For All
(just as an example);
and make our attackers have to struggle to impugn those ideas.
Let the party be first, and the persons who carry the party's banner (towards or in office) be considered secondary.
It's a kind of politics that can still "fit" in the American system; but a far different kind than anyone else offers.
Your idea of a new party sounds so good, but I worry that the billionaire elites who control America won’t let it happen. Kamala is as much of a party hack as Genocide Joe is. Even good people like Obama are tainted by the rotten American system. BTW, the ideals and you describe as fundamental for your new party are exactly those of European socialism.
The rule of billionaire owners and elites has borne its bitter fruits in where we are now. If they intend to quash us, we should both a.) Expose them by name, + make them defend their many corrupt and grasping actions; and b.) Make plain that their most desired governance benefits absolutely no one but them, and harms absolutely everyone else.
Very well said, Mark. For all the myriad faults of capitalism, it is so disappointing to see that people refuse to give the concept up. I’m writing from Britain, which has had fourteen years of blatant extreme capitalist thieving of state and public riches. Here, sadly, too many people believe the establishment lies. As you have alluded to a possible response is right wing extremism. Here (in the UK) that expresses itself as a very ugly racism. True socialists are demonised and lied about . Jeremy Corbyn is the perfect example. A socialist future is the only fair way to run any country. Again, that frightens the existing power structures and their subservient masses, so tends not to happen. Venezuelan is another great example! I only hope that enough people will wake up and say “we’re not going to take this any more” so that things really will change
Well said. Starve and abuse the people, loot them of their resources and rights and you get either fascism or real justice, some kind of fair nation ... some form of socialism. The entire west is on the pivot point.
Great points
We actually already have many "third parties" in the US, and so I don't see the need to start entirely from scratch. That just takes time and energy better put to use elsewhere.
Check out Jill Stein's platform and see if this is a party you can get behind: https://jillstein2024.com/platform
The Greens, for several valid reasons, are unsuited to absorb a large amount of new members and energy. They have been subject to "takeover"/disruption attempts from outside before, that were usually preceded by a membership influx. They are wary of such movements, and regard those as threats to their structural/ideological integrity.
Our new party should be open to coalitional work with the Greens, as and if they choose to work with us on issues they agree with. Otherwise, their agency and sovereignty should be theirs alone.
Excellent.
LOVE IT
I vote for a new SYSTEM, and let's dump government.
We can do everything we need to do WITHOUT it, and no more standing army using our money to kill other people in far-away places-- and then steal their resources.
Through their negligence and timidity, Democrats constantly stir the pot of American fascism. In many ways they are more dangerous than the Republicans. At least the Republicans are open about their fascist intent and goals.
I share your fears. The worst VP choice in my lifetime was Joe Lieberman, whose loyalty to the US seemmed subservient to his loylty to Israel. He also did non-stop criticism of Bill Clinton, something that might be warranted in 2024 but was a recipe for disaster in 2000. If Harris picks Shapiro for VP, I think the election is over. He may be a good governor but I will not vote for anyone who supports our participatipon in genocide. There are other issues but in today's world, they are irrelevant.
And also keep in mind, Harris's husband is a diehard Zionist and his brother is a big exec at Uber. Nothing will change. Israeli ZioNazis own and run the show. The best that can be hoped for is the nation's slide down the toilet drain will be a tad slower.
* Harris's sister's husband is the chief legal officer for Uber.
Agreed. US system seems incapable of reform from within. Will be the rise of China, Russia and BRICS that makes change.
Just watched Glenn Greenwald address the very issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivG1h1Y8Ps
Dem "progressives" are such nutless cowards.
Not in govt. Maybe Massie and one or two others, but...